Dragolord09 said:
...huh. I guess Summer Servants are a thing outside of Grand Order. Or atleast, ones on a certain bodhisattva's power level.
Fangking1414 said:
pretty sure that's sanzang not Kiara if it was the nun Hans would be duty-bound to insult her
Yeah, it was meant to be Sanzang that they were referring to.
Raider301 said:
Is this a meta-joke on the original development of the Apocrypha MMO game?
It started off as that, yes. Sanzang's addition here was more just trying to flesh out the failed Grail War that took place.
GolisoPower said:
Daaamn, this was so riveting! Nice work!
So a few things: now that Izuku's actually faced off against Goetia, it should sort of ease any tension he'll get with Paracelsus and Shakespeare. Not entirely make it go away, but sort of situation where he's like, "I'm still mad at you about what happened...but I can see why you did it now".
Secondly, speaking of Goetia, I take it Izuku's going to be going sleepless nights researching Solomon and trying to team up with El-Melloi to develop some semblance of strategy on how to beat him once the Singularities are over. Poor lad's gonna break himself mentally trying to cook a good war plan.
Thirdly, daaamn, the whole thing with Hades is starting to kinda pay off! Even got Goetia going "WTF", that's nuts!
Fourthly, I was just imagining Might + U playing when Mash stepped up to defend Izuku and get that upgrade. It just seemed fitting, you know?
>playing Might + U for the moment with Mash
...f*ck.
I really wish I had thought of that, instead of trolling my Discord members by playing Snowflake Shield.
NMS said:
Ah yes, the most dangerous power, Bird Vision.
I am trying to use the original lore from the Ars Goetia when it comes to the Demon God Pillars, and sometimes that forces me to use more unorthodox ideas.
Incidentally, the four Pillars that they fought at the beginning with Crocell, Belial, Decarabia (the bird one), and Seere.
Mundatorem said:
Yeah, unlike Ritsuka, Izuku did something that would be even more personally offensive to Goetia.
Really, to see all the pain and feel all the death.
Yet still continue onwards.
Izuku could be nothing more than insane in his eyes.
But as for the chapter as a whole...
...I am satisfied. A good showing from "Solomon."
Whew. That's a relief. I was really worried about making sure I nailed him since I knew you would want to make sure he was accurate.
Now I just gotta keep that consistent for when he appears again.
Da Indominator said:
Y'know, I dunno if anyone pointed this out yet but it appears that "Solomon" was just about to attempt something very Shakespearean with how things were going for a second there.
Like, being controlled against her wishes to attack allies, completely incapable of being stopped unless by death. It's frighteningly similar to what happened to Jack, isn't it?
There's a vicious irony somewhere in there, especially taking in the fact that it was Mordred who finished off Jack. I am willing to bet that had Izuku not interfered at the last moment, and Artoria had gone through with the kill, Solomon would start gloating something about how Mordred's actions meant utterly nothing in the end.
"She sought to spare you the sin of killing that young wraith, just to meet the very same fate in the end, quite ironic is it not? Does the utter pointlessness of it all not drive you mad, Master of Chaldea?"
To be totally honest, I was going back and forth on whether or not to kill off Mordred right at the end there. But as Izuku himself realized, it would just be way too cruel an end for her after everything she's been through. And it almost seems too cruel for Goetia to do, unless it was Flauros in the driver's seat at that stage.
NMS said:
So, what was Han's plan exactly when he was calling out "Solomon" on his bullsh*t?
The thinking was that if he goaded Goetia into killing him, then he'd have had his fun and just left after that.
It would've been a moot point regardless because Izuku would've been 1000% mad at that point and taken a direct swing at Goetia, which would've led to him getting his ass handed to him in a different way than here.
The-Honored-One said:
I mean I kinda liked most of the chapter.
If there was any criticism that I would give it's ... the entire situation with Artoria and Mordred.Besides the whole , honestly random, mind control Mordred to generate drama.. it's honestly her response.
I don't mean to make Saber seem callous but... she honestly wouldn't have hesitated.
At all.
Especially with their whole intangible nature as Servants.
I can see the attempt at forcing a reconciliation.And "Solomon" honestly put more effort into it than necessary.
Everything else, from action, others response to Gilgamesh's no show ("What would be the point? ") was on point
Goetia took control of Mordred more just to keep Mash occupied than anything else. He still has yet to decide if she's worth talking to or not, so he didn't want to end up accidentally killing her in a direct fight. This seemed like the best way to handle that.
genericname12345 said:
Eeeyup. That was about what I expected. Izuku walked up to the King of Mages, and promptly got his sh*t kicked in.
Yes, he eked out a small victory (though I wish that Mordred had died, or that someone else had suffered for his decision to save her at cost because Mordred was trying to kill them and she's one of their strongest), but he just saw four Demon God Pillars he killed be summoned to the field again.
He's smart enough to realize what that means - namely, that while Chaldea is getting stronger, he's not actually hurt 'Solomon' at all. Any losses in 'personnel' that the King of Mages suffers, can be undone on a whim. Of course given that he's also probably got a Death Curse on him atm (unless Solomon chose not to for whatever reason), that's the least of his concerns right now. Not that he knows it.
It's a minor thing, really, compared to the absolute drubbing his 'heroic sense' has gotten throughout this Singularity, but I do hope we'll see him having kittens over this later on.
Really though it'll be the following chapters we see the full impact of what just happened - Izuku's headspace is 100% on survival-mode atm. He can mull over 'Solomon's' words later.
raf*cki22 said:
Ehh, i wouldn't say that Izuku has recieved an absolute drubbing, but that's me.
The chapter could have been a little bit more dark, but i suppose the author didn't want to write it like that based on previous commentary about the angst.
And Artoria battle against Mordred, sorry, but i could only see it as a, and i don't want to say forced, heavy handed way of them eventually reconciliating. (I also think that it was somewhat out of character)
I don't think that Izuku is that smart either, like when he spotted the Romani thread when he probably shouldn't have, people exagerate how smart he is, not that it would matter because it would be clear to everyone else that "Solomon" is weird, not just him.
KNM said:
A near 0 casualty run for London and Mash gets Lord Camelot two Singularities early. Looks like Izuku's a better Master than Ritsuka.
Can't let anyone Izuku's bonded with die after this long after all. So it only makes sense it'd be only Tamamo and Kintoki.
With Lord Camelot already unlocked, Arash likely wouldn't need to sacrifice himself in Camelot to save the village. Which would free him up to fight the Round Table, which is good cuz I doubt Izuku will agree to let the Hassans stay behind to fight Tristan knowing it'd lead to their deaths.
genericname12345 said:
I'm just tagging this for when MadCrona gets around to replying to all of our comments, to opine that I sincerely hope this is not the track MadCrona plans to demonstrate with this fic. Even if much/all of the evidence so far points to 'yes'. (Yes, I know, it was discussed before and I wanted to settle it there but KNM's comment just incited me to say this.)
It also says something that we are over 160 chapters into this story so far and probably over 1.6 million words total yet we can still make comments on 'how will MadCrona go in the future' because FGO's story is so incredibly lengthy that we're still relatively early on in things.
And we're still in the shorter parts of the story, oh my god.
A Cool Name said:
I have not read the end chapter yet, I am mostly here for the event parts of the story...but FGO is not a doorstop, it is the goddamed door! Even part 1 has a lot of story to cover.
My two cents are that Izuku isn't a 'better' Master than Ritsuka. They just have different philosophies and strengths from that, so Izuku excels at something Ritsuka might not and vice versa
Hayabusa97 said:
One example being that Ritsuka has an easier time working with the more evil aligned Servants compared to Izuku IIRC.
KNM said:
It doesn't really seem that way to be honest. Izuku doesn't really show much difficulty in working with the Evil Servants and has consistently done a better job at resolving Singularities over all and in general.Though with more headaches to his minders with his bullheaded recklessness.
Like Kiyohime's issues are literally in her spirit origin thanks to Mad Enhancement EX, but Izuku's able to basically cure her. Frankly, I'm surprised they didn't managed to find a way to fix Okita's tuberculosis. Or perhaps Crona's saving that for a later event
The ones he has issues working with are those that make it personal by accidentally pushing his buttons like Alexander or the Gorgon sisters, since his view points and traumas causes him to get too emotional in it despite knowing otherwise intellectually.
It doesn't help that when Part 2 arrives, the Lostbelts will be altered to be easier to Izuku's sensibilities because he needs it to clear them. Though I dunno how without basically taking away the stakes of a Lostbelt since making different Lostbelts doesn't change their fate at Cosmos Denial.
raf*cki22 said:
Also, Goetia taking control of Mordred seems...out of place? Out of nowhere? He never demonstrated anything like that, maybe because he didn't need it, but even then, it looked like a way of making him not give a fraction more of effort into a PPK (Partial Party Kill) so that Izuku wouldn't have to lament the fact his friends "died".
Izuku is said to not be a better master, the reality that we are shown says otherwise (Especially with the spontaneous circuits and crest), among other things, like the Hades thing, he has alredy surprised Goetia, little as it was, by not using the Arc, so i can't say Izuku is just better in some areas when he is shown better in all areas, Izuku not getting along with evil servants hasn't come to bite him in the ass so him not getting along with them isn't a problem, not to mention that Izuku philosophy gives him better results and we know that's not going to change because that would undermine him, especially because Chrona has alredy talked about the complains of Izuku slow improvement, so...
Izuku is a better Master and saying otherwise is contradicting the story shown.
Alright, look, I'm gonna be brutally honest here.
I've tried to push the conversation away from "is Izuku better than Ritsuka" in the past because that was never the point of this story. It was never about trying to make Ritsuka look worse or more inept or whatever it is people want to say about it. It was about showing how things were different with Izuku in the driver's seat. Hell, if the reaction to the omake was any indication, people would generally prefer it if they were both there to make things easier on all of them.
I've also said in the past that Izuku having his Circuits and his Crest was mainly because I couldn't justify him having One For All without having started training with All Might. If I could've found a way to do that without it feeling even more contrived, I probably would've gone that route instead. Now I have a different plan in mind that's still slowly playing out. It wasn't me trying to make the FGO setting look bad or break it in half or anything like that.
Even so, I've had those accusations lobbed at me over and over for the past few months, and frankly, it's getting exhausting to look at. It's at the point where it seems like any time Izuku gets even a minor victory, or just doesn't technically "lose", the accusations of making things too easy for him come out.
To address an earlier point, yes, Hans was going to die in the original version of this chapter. But after the reception to the Shakespeare incident, and talking it over with my Discord mods, it seemed prudent to pull back on that so things weren't so dire. So I did, and now the pendulum's swung the other way. Not gonna lie, that's just frustrating.
But at the same time, I'm fully aware I can't stop anyone from having opinions or voicing them. I don't want to be that person who just shuts out any criticism whatsoever for the sake of my fragile ego, no matter how much it can get to me sometimes.
So this is basically me saying I'm bowing out of the topic going forward. If you guys want to keep debating about which Master is better or accuse me of planning to have Izuku shatter FGO canon with the power of his OFA-infused schwartz, feel free to do so. I can't stop you. But I don't expect I'll be responding to anything else in that regard from here on. Maybe that's not the most mature thing for me to say, but I have my limits.
